ext_137345 ([identity profile] elmo-iscariot.livejournal.com) wrote in [personal profile] demiurgent 2007-12-03 10:43 pm (UTC)

Atheism is not the lack of religion, despite the roots of the word. Atheism is a religion. It is the specific belief, without evidence, that the universe lacked intelligent or motive force behind its creation.

...

I would argue in return that if your version of Atheism is "I don't believe in any of those deities -- if I see one I'll believe in it" doesn't include an active disbelief...

Your idea that "active" certainty is a fundamental component of atheism doesn't seem to be founded.

From the American Heritage Dictionary:

atheism
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.


The first definition requires only "disbelief":

disbelief:
Refusal or reluctance to believe.


All that's required to be called an "atheist" is a refusal to believe. I have that. So I can accurately call myself an atheist without saying "I know for certain that there's no god". An atheist can be a person who simply doesn't believe _or_ a person who's certain.

On the other hand:

agnostic
1.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.


1a doesn't describe me; the belief that it's impossible to know something? The belief that, no matter what might happen in the future or what we learn to do, we can never under any circumstances find conclusive evidence one way or the other? _That's_ bullshit unfounded certainty.

I'll side with you in rejecting the "agnostics are cowards!" silliness, but your definitions of the two terms simply aren't accurate, nor are your conclusions about identifying as an atheist.

Now, if you wanna say "prescriptivism!" and argue that your definition trumps the AHD, then it's unlikely the conversation can go much further. ;)

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