The one thing I will say in response to this is this:
You won't convince me that marrying a person of the same sex is a basic human right that comes from a transcendent, but not divine source.
The core difference between our positions, it seems to me, is that you see rights as deriving and devolving from the divine, whereas I see them as innate. I think, more than anything else, that what two people who aren't me do with each other, when it makes them happy and they both consent, is none of my fucking business. And I think that if I am given certain rights and privileges when I enter into a romantic, intimate and personal partnership with the person I love, then those folks deserve the same rights and privileges that I get, even if my love is a woman and they're both men.
These are peoples' lives we're talking about. This is their very pursuit of happiness. And it doesn't take anything away from you to let them pursue it.
I said it above, and I'll say it here. We are discussing an innately mean concept. It is, to put a direct word to it, cruel. And yeah, I'm saying it's not possible to take the opposite view from mine on this issue without being cruel to people who just want to live their own lives, their own way, without taking a thing away from you.
If the God you venerate requires this, then that God is cruel. If your religious leader puts forth that said God requires this, than that leader is, in fact, cruel. We're not talking about a theory, here. We're talking about millions upon millions of your fellow man.
And that's the thing. My position makes many, many people uncomfortable, because Homosexuality scares them. But my position doesn't invalidate their relationships or take away their rights or make their lives worse in any way. Your position ghettoizes people and leads to pain and despair.
It's hard to agree to disagree in situations like that.
I hope only the best for you. I really do, and I mean it as sincerely as you meant your closing invocation for both of us. But let me leave you with this. Luke 6:30-31 (KJV) reads "Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Consider what is being asked of all of us, and consider what we as a society have given and taken away as a result. And consider how you would want others to treat you and your rights in this situation.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2008-12-24 09:36 pm (UTC)The core difference between our positions, it seems to me, is that you see rights as deriving and devolving from the divine, whereas I see them as innate. I think, more than anything else, that what two people who aren't me do with each other, when it makes them happy and they both consent, is none of my fucking business. And I think that if I am given certain rights and privileges when I enter into a romantic, intimate and personal partnership with the person I love, then those folks deserve the same rights and privileges that I get, even if my love is a woman and they're both men.
These are peoples' lives we're talking about. This is their very pursuit of happiness. And it doesn't take anything away from you to let them pursue it.
I said it above, and I'll say it here. We are discussing an innately mean concept. It is, to put a direct word to it, cruel. And yeah, I'm saying it's not possible to take the opposite view from mine on this issue without being cruel to people who just want to live their own lives, their own way, without taking a thing away from you.
If the God you venerate requires this, then that God is cruel. If your religious leader puts forth that said God requires this, than that leader is, in fact, cruel. We're not talking about a theory, here. We're talking about millions upon millions of your fellow man.
And that's the thing. My position makes many, many people uncomfortable, because Homosexuality scares them. But my position doesn't invalidate their relationships or take away their rights or make their lives worse in any way. Your position ghettoizes people and leads to pain and despair.
It's hard to agree to disagree in situations like that.
I hope only the best for you. I really do, and I mean it as sincerely as you meant your closing invocation for both of us. But let me leave you with this. Luke 6:30-31 (KJV) reads "Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Consider what is being asked of all of us, and consider what we as a society have given and taken away as a result. And consider how you would want others to treat you and your rights in this situation.
Peace.