Devil's advocate, I remember being taught it was illegal to let the flag get *wet.*

[demiurgent]

A social studies teacher named Dan Holden burned two American flags in front of his seventh grade social studies class. He didn't do it out of protest, or anger. He did it raise issues in class about freedom of speech. He assigned papers to the class, who were supposed to take a stand, in favor of protecting his speech or in favor of protecting the flag from desecration.

He did this thing to make the subject immediate and poignant -- not just another drab class discussion about an issue that feels at best remote and hypothetical to twelve year old kids. Which is remarkable, when one considers Holden was a veteran teacher, going into his twenty-seventh year at that school. A lot of teachers going into their twenty-seventh school year would just do what worked last year.

He has now been suspended, pending investigations of the "incident." The school has cited 'safety concerns' about open flame, which is thinly disguised dressing over the real issue at hand: the fact that he burned a flag.

Here's what I feel on the subject: Dan Holden wanted to make several points to his class. He wanted to teach them about freedom of speech most of all.

Well, I think it's safe to say those seventh graders have had an education in freedom of speech. I think every day their substitute teacher walks through the door of the class they're reminded of what Dan Holden taught them about freedom of speech.

Comments

[jfargo.livejournal.com]

You and me think very similarly, I find. I don't write much about political things or the world around us because, well, most of the time I come off as not knowing what I'm talking about, but on this my thoughts were exactly parallel with yours.

That's one generation of students that will learn to keep their mouths shut.

Nutless cowards?

[anselm23.livejournal.com]

Dan Holden was a brave, brave man. His school is apparently run by a bunch of nutless cowards, though.

Maybe not, though. Maybe they're just thoughless pro-silence pro-government-is-always-right activists.

[forsythferret.livejournal.com]

The boy scouts burn hundreds of flags a year. It's the reccomended disposal method for flags.

Leaving it to get tattered and faded and beat to hell on the antenna of your SUV or on a magnet stuck on the back aren't. And honestly are more offensive to me than the people who burn a flag as a political statement. I guess it's one of those things I just don't get.

And this makes a total of two incidents of flag burning I've heard of in the past six years, at least. And one of those was some teenagers spoling for a fight at some anti-war protests in DC. Which they didn't get, and when they got bored of not fighting, several bystanders came over and put out the flag and took the remains for proper disposal.

But even then, the flag is just cloth. It's a representation of an idea, but it's still a piece of cloth. Hurting the cloth doesn't hurt the idea.

[ocarina.livejournal.com]

I was about to say that, about properly burning flags. That's what I was taught in girl scouts, even that you'd have to burn the flag if you let it touch the ground. The point being that disrespect was the offense and since this was for flag ceremonies you were most definitely using the flag as symbol in context. Outside of the ceremony, though, it's not in context and you can wrap it up and keep it in a closet without worrying you've put the entire republic in the closet.

[troutman.livejournal.com]

Ditto, only I was a mighty Cub Scout. I had to learn how to fold that fucker up and everything, and if you let it fall - hoo boy, shit was ON.

That said, I think these kids were too young to really grasp the point the teacher was trying to make anyway. High school, maybe, but seventh grade? Shit. The highest thing on my priority list was collecting Star Wars micro machines. I'm pretty sure a symbolic example of free speech wouldn't have really registered on my radar.

[glamazonwarrior.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I was in advanced classes starting in the sixth grade; everyone in the classes had a pretty good grasp of such things, and I'd hazard to say that most school children have a better grasp of the Bill of Rights than most adults.

Even in the "average" classes I was in, we'd cover a whole range of topics and ideas, and most of the people would "get" them. Of course, we were also dissecting and analyzing news articles in elementary school as part of the social studies component.

[have-you-seen.livejournal.com]

Hehe would have been what I had to say to that as well. Not in US, but when the flag gets damage, worn out or touches the ground ever, you are supposed to burn it. (I was a girl scout, but here we have girls and boys as one group).

Those students he was teaching, sure did learn more than intended but maybe even some of them will get his point.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

The boy scouts burn hundreds of flags a year. It's the reccomended disposal method for flags.

Not just recommended. LEGALLY REQUIRED, in the US Flag Code.

There are no penalties for violating the Flag Code, as far as I know, but it still requires that the flag be burned if it is no longer in a fit state to display, or if it touches the ground.

[ravelwoods.livejournal.com]

It doesn't say that you should burn the flag if it falls on the ground. It just says that it shouldn't touch the ground, or anything else beneath it. A flag only needs to be burned when it is no longer suitable for display (it's become tattered, or so badly soiled it can't be cleaned). Just because it's touched the ground doesn't mean it's no longer suitable for display. It's permissable simply to rearrange it so it no longer touches the ground, and to clean it if it's gotten dirty.

[robotech-master.livejournal.com]

Well, I think it's safe to say those seventh graders have had an education in freedom of speech. I think every day their substitute teacher walks through the door of the class they're reminded of what Dan Holden taught them about freedom of speech.

Or, well, maybe they're not.

Stuart sixth-grader Kelsey Adwell, 11, said students were abuzz about the incident on Monday.

"They just can't believe that a teacher would do that — burn two American flags in front of the class," she said. "A teacher shouldn't do that, even though it was an example."

Looks like at least one of those students learned the wrong lesson.

[jfargo.livejournal.com]

My guess is that the wrong lesson here probably came from her parents.

[demiurgent.livejournal.com]

Not necessarily. He was very careful not to say the act itself was right or wrong -- he wanted the kids to think, and he wanted them to learn.

That said, Kelsey Adwell was a sixth grader, which is to say a year too young to have been in his class.

[orikes13.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I wouldn't discount the lesson learned by the man's actual class. The quoted student isn't even from his class. It states that the kid was in sixth grade, when the teacher performed the lesson for the seventh graders.

[blubear.livejournal.com]

...if indeed they do see it as an issue of freedom of speech. I don't know if those seventh-grade minds would be sophisticated enough to appreciate what their teacher did.

A lot of what we learn as children is so intrinsic to us that oftentimes we may not realize it. Like how elementary school children are taught the Pledge of Allegiance before they know what words like "pledge" and "allegiance" mean.

Let's just hope those kids grow up telling stories about how their teacher was suspended for his stance of freedom of speech, rather than stories about how their teacher burned a flag in class.

[no-relation.livejournal.com]

On a related note, do you know the story of Tamara Hoover (http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid%3A378611)? She's a high-school art teacher in Austin, TX who posed for nude photos that were then posted on Flickr. Another art teacher was complaining about Miss Hoover in her class (apparently, they'd clashed over use of the kiln), and a student called up the pictures in class. When the other teacher notified school officials, she was put on paid administrative leave and it subsequently exploded in a giant mess of local and regional news coverage and public outcry, both opposed to her firing and opposed to her staying. The latest news is she's resigned, accepting a $14,850 settlement.

An important lesson on free expression, and it only cost the school district $15,000.

[blackbyrd2.livejournal.com]

I think it's sad that the administration for that school is incapable of making that same mental leap from action to result.

It's also sad that a teacher who is apparently constantly thinking of ways to get his students to be interested and involved in critical thinking (an incredibly rare creature these days) should be punished in any way. It's no wonder our nation is illiterate, and that teachers are rewarded for longevity rather than skill or creativity. It's no wonder that we get adminstrators such as the ones in this case, who apparently have never been taught to think critically.